Direct injection

Hi,

i am waiting for the direct injection functionality for emu pro.
Does anyone know when it will be available and are there already informations to be shared?
I want to check if my project is possible with emu pro.
Want to do some upgrades one a Audi S5 2008 V8 engine.

Best regards
Nico

i would love to hear about this too, my understanding is there will be a separate driver box eventually.

I read this too, but i actually don’t understand why this is needed and what HW features it includes. The DI contents should mostly just be SW and enough for EMU pro HW.
However…some points to my project engine (i want to reuse some stock stuff, which i reverse engineered):

  1. The injectors are peak and hold injectors, but the peake phase is devided in two sections:


    blue=Voltage
    yellow=current
    The first phase provides around 65V to the injector and then goes on with 12V
    Will this be possible with the additional driver box? As i understand EMU pro SW just grounds a 12V supply in peak and hold control

  2. What high pressure fuelpump systems will be supported by the SW? Or is the VAG/Audi System with a pump driven by the cam supported and what calibration Informations are needed to get it working? The Bosch SW uses/needs the cam Profil as an parameter and opens the control valve according the cam position, which is not that easy to reverse engineer precisely (at least for me).

  3. Will split injection be supportet? Stock SW seperates the whole injection quantity partially in two injections…one in intake stroke and one in compression stroke. I have the stock maps for this and want to keep them if it is possible

The engine will get a supercharger upgrade and for load MAP<1bar i want to use as much as possible from the series calibration (or at least just the sensful stuff :D)

Best regards
Nico

If i had to guess #2 is probably the hold up. To make a safe and efficient way to correctly time the pump duty and injector windows is probably not an easy feat.

Hi,
Let me provide some answers on the direct injection control.

Direct injectors driver:
We are working on a module that will allow correct control of electromagnetic injectors for direct injection. The external module is needed because the injectors have to be opened fast with high voltage and current. The driver has a voltage converter that generates up to 70 V. Both ends of the injector coil are connected to the driver so it can connect 70 V, 12 V, and ground when needed.

The three phases you see in the injector control are boost, peak, and hold. Boost is the fast opening phase with high voltage and current. The peak phase is to stabilize the valve after opening, and the hold phase is there to keep the minimum current needed to stay open, which also helps with faster closing.

Preliminary specification of our injector driver:
Boost voltage - 70 V
Boost current - 15 A
Peak current - 12 A
Hold current - 6 A

High-pressure control:
Fuel pressure control is realized by opening and closing the high-pressure pump valve at specific points of the lobe that is driving the pump. As you noticed, it has to be done in synch with the camshaft position. At first, EMU PRO will support common pumps from Bosch and Hitachi.

The basic information needed for calibrating the pump is the cam profile (lift vs. angle) and pump displacement. There are a lot more details to that, like valve delay for example, but those are more for the quality and response of the pressure control.

Split injection:
We haven’t looked at it yet because it is not needed to run the engine and make power reliably. We will look into this after we have the whole system working and tested so we don’t create too many complications and potential problems at the beginning.

Current state of things:
We have a working Ecoboost engine on the engine dyno.
We are preparing to start 2.0 TSI from Leon Cupra.
After that, we will look into some BMW engines.
Release somewhere in Q3.

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Thanks a lot for this answer. So looks like ur system will be working with Audi S5 V8 engine, which makes me happy😁
Will start to figure out the cam profil of the fuelpump.
Two last questions…this engine has 2 pumps…one on each bank driven by intake cam. I didnt have a closer look on this yet, but i expect that they dont run a synchron cam profil.
Question…will ur SW Support two high pressure pumps with different/not synchron cam profils?

Last question…how will the external modul communicate with the emu pro? Do i need to reserve some stuff for this?
Since the injector outputs are not used on emu pro…i could use them for other stuff?
This is important for me, cause will make the difference for me if i use pro8 or pro16.

Yes, there will be support for two independent pumps. Those pumps are still controlled based on the crankshaft/camshaft position, but have their own rail pressure sensors and control valves. Both pumps should have TDC at the same time.

Every direct injector needs its own injector output from EMU PRO and each pump needs injector/H-bridge output for the control valve. So in your case, you need 10 outputs from EMU PRO connected to the injector driver unit.

You also have to understand that the direct injection system has a maximum flow, that is often not that much higher than OEM power level. If you hit the limit you either have to change injectors which might not be possible or use additional port injection. If you want direct+port injection on a V8 you have to use PRO 16.

B58 B48 3.6VR6 Please :wink:

Some infos to the fuelpumpsystem of Audi S5 V8:

  • it has two pumps feeding one common rail (both banks)
  • both pumps are driven by intake camshaft
  • the pump driving cam profil consists of two cams
    Those are the cam profiles for both pumps:

Sadly it seems that both pumps are not synchrone. They have an offset of 160° crankshaft.
So according ur information this engine is not compatible to ur system. I can just use one of two pumps. Engine will run, but won’t be able to reach high loads.
I would really appreciate if u could plan to add the support of such an system in ur SW :slight_smile:
In the mean time i try to find a workaround. If anyone has an idea let me know.

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Is it really one common rail for all 8 injectors?
If that’s the case, I would assume there is also a single fuel pressure sensor on the rail.

We talked about this, and we will make it work. Not sure if we can make it for the first alpha version, but we will try. And as you said, you will be able to make the first start on a single pump.

Yes…or lets say both rails are connected and share a common feed line and one sensor:


Here both HP outputs of the pumps meet and go down into the V:

And in the V the line splits up to both rails (red).
To the end of rail 1 the fuelpressure sensor is connected (orange).
And to both rails one overpressure valve is connected (blue).

No hurry to make it work for alpha…i have enough to do on the vehicle…i am happy to hear that u want to make it work :slight_smile:

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i have a rs5 engine somewhere with a melted piston and PES supercharger.
if this is working on pro8 i am gone repair the engine and find a car to put it in :wink:

Great idea…this engine with supercharger i guess is hyper fun :smiley:
With the informations shared here I am sure it will work…i already collected all the data needed for calibration for S5 engine. I also want to put a PPS/VPS (i think it is the same) Supercharger on it.
Do u know which kind of boost control valve this compressor is useing? Cant find infos to it. Is it similar to a throttle body so an Hbridge is required or is it a simple PWM valve?
Still struggeling if EMU pro 8 or pro 16 cause number of outputs is critical in pro8 for this engine. For S5 pro8 probably can work.
For RS5 with 2 throttle bodies u definitly need pro16.

Hi,

I can convert the supercharger to single dbw.

It has a vacuum control bypass valve .
Thats it. You control power with the dbw. To far close bypass. Valve opens. No boost.

Interessting…if u dont need the supercharger anymore…i buy it :smiley:

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