Hiya, I have a fairly simple question that isn’t specifically addressed in the documentation or help section. Do afterstart and cranking enrichments compound with warmup enrichment?
For instance if my injector timing at 1bar and 500 rpm is 6ms and on a cold start at 19f I am running 25% warmup enrichment that’s 7.5ms right. So if I have 18% cranking enrichment at 19f is that 18% of 7.5ms or 18% of 6ms?
I feel like this should be the case because afterstart enrichment should transition into warmup at 0 right? If that’s the case and the CLT enrichment table is part of the normal fuel calculation shouldn’t that be under fueling>corrections instead of Engine Start because its location and even its name is a bit misleading as to its function. Should probably be referred to as CLT enrichment or CLT based enrichment. Also if that is the case and the “warmup” table is always active then hypothetically I can use it to add additional fuel at very high temps as well right?
The simplest way to get definitive answers to your questions here is as follows.
Set up one of your log pages with all of the fuel related correction and enrichment metrics.
Also add MAP, and RPM, Injector PW (and Coolant Temperature of course)
I would include all of these channels,
Cranking Correction (Yes/No)
Afterstart Enrichment %
Warmup correction (Yes/No)
Warmup enrichment %
There is also a Flex Fuel Warmup Blend Data channel option if you’re running Flex.
This will show you exactly how the cold start table lookup logic is organised and give you a complete understanding of the relationship between all of these corrections and enrichments.
I thought it might be helpful to also note you can not log the Prime Pulse although it will be visible in the Injector PW Channel.
Also you can log the ECU State which will display as Cranking, Afterstart, or Running.
If you compare your correction channels with this channel you will see where each enrichment is given authority.
I suppose I asked because I feel this is information that should be common knowledge but isn’t found in any of the documentation. Should I have to take all of the time to figure out whether or not these enrichments are compounded, added, or totally independent of one another when it’s something that should be disclosed by the people who are developing the software? The car isn’t even on V3 yet, I’m just trying to convert my old file to something that is usable. When cranking is active is a no brainer, its before the RPM threshold is reached. Afterstart is the designated period of time after the RPM threshold is reached. If the threshold is exceeded and the duration of time elapses its not in afterstart anymore. It is however vague AF as to what the calculation is based off of . I don’t even know why these need a yes/no data point. “Warmup” is vague at best when it can be applied at literally any temp for seemingly no disclosed duration of time or why its even listed under startup. Should I have to ask such a basic question? I don’t think this was so much directed at the community but more towards the devs. Why make software if your not going to explain what it does in a way that is actually useful.
There is no documentation that tells you that if you’re in America you should look Left before you step onto a road, but if you’re in Australia you should look Right.
Common knowledge is usually not documented by virtue of it being commonly known.
If you’re directing your question at the Devs why post in the community forum? Are you trying to humiliate them?
Haven’t you heard of email?
Furthermore, I spent some time carefully putting together my responses only to get condescending sarcasm from someone who didn’t even need answers.
Embarrassing.
Sarcasm? Not at all. All of my concerns and questions are genuine. I know how it can be done and I know how to figure it out but I don’t know how they are doing it. Perhaps I should have led with that… I hadn’t considered emailing them because I don’t know how that helps the community. Unless I email them, get an answer, then do their job for them by making a post explaining how their software works. I cant be the only person who has had this question. I understand most people will probably just suck it up and figure it out for themselves which is why the search function wasn’t of much help but is that really what you paid for? This isn’t an attack on you, I am genuinely glad you replied, however you shouldn’t have to tell someone how to figure out something that shouldn’t be a question.
The cranking fuel table is a correction to the fuel dose calculated using standard speed density / alphaN. Then the fuel dose is corrected by the value from cranking fuel table.
The warmup table is applied.
The afterstart is applied only in afterstart state so it is not active during cranking.
Thank you, that’s what I assumed was the case but it wasn’t mentioned anywhere. The help article mentions that cranking is based on VE but doesn’t mention warmup so I didn’t know if VE was being used as shorthand for its normal fuel calculation and if warmup was a part of that. I still cant tell of the effect is compounded or added because its not very cold here right now and my warmup/afterstart values aren’t very high.
I don’t get much time with the car so most of the tuning I do is done through what little logging I can, a lot of math, and converting what relevant data I can from a different platform I used years ago. Everything usually works as expected the first time unless I’m missing bits of information that would take a good while to pull out of a log.
I changed warmup enrichment a bit and I think I saw that anything above 0 is always applied so it should be possible to use it to add fuel above a normal operating temperature. Again my time was limited so I wasn’t able to experiment too much. I’m still unsure if there is some condition that results in the warmup table being deactivated like if its stuck on 0 enrichment for an extended duration of time or if it just turns off eventually.
In Black V2 WarmUp enrichment does overlap Afterstart Enrichment for the duration of the Afterstart Enrichment as determined by the number of engine cycles entered into the Afterstart Parameters window.
Warmup enrichment is entirely controlled by engine coolant temperature. You could indeed think of it as Engine Temperature Compensation.
In Black V2 you determine when to have no warmup enrichment by reducing enrichment to 100% at the desired operating temperature. If you want to add fuel to an overheating engine you can increase enrichment above 100% at the desired temperature threshold in the warmup enrichment table. If you are operating between operating temperature and your high temperature threshold you will have no correction assuming you have flatlined the table at 100% in that temperature range.
Remember, in Black V2, 100% = zero enrichment. In Black V3 100% = double enrichment.
Sorry but u are expecting too much information without a need for it.
First of all engine SW is too complex to document every little detail. Application is all about logging and analyzing the logs. During that process u by the way will get a feeling how the SW works and the engine is behaving and during that u answere ur questions urselfe. If u dont have time for that u should not do engine calibration. Detailed informations u are asking for here wont speed up ur tuning process significantly and also are more or less irrelevant…like if the corrections are multiplied or added….in the end u need to play with the numbers and the finetuning is a try and error not a calculation u do on ur desk.
Irrelevant? Sorry but you clearly don’t tune for -20f. I don’t have to explain why the difference between compounded and added is relevant when dealing with fuel calculations totaling between 200% and 300%.