Hey Guys!
I recently got my 1.8T AEB up and running, with primary trigger issues, im using VR as a crank sensor. sometimes i get unexpected missing tooth while cranking. im using shielded cables, Sensor is OEM + i tried a second one which worked on a stock car in the past. In addition to the starting issue i cant rev above ~2600RPM, in case of revving 2600 i get an unexpected missing tooth and the car dies/misfires to 0 RPM.
Has anybody had this problem before?
I will Link my Log soon!
What are ur exact settings for the sensor?
I had something similar like u. In the end the sensor settings needed some finetune.
With those my engine works perfect:
Independed of ur problem…are u sure ur trigger angle/tooth is correct?
1.8t and nearly all newer VAG engines usually have 1/72 = 0/78…i think u are 6 deg off.
i tried removing the pullup + input filter, result is and immediate rpm spike right after the start of cranking + i cant get a solid crank signal/ unexpected missing tooth more often then before.
angle and trigger tooth are a good point, i checked it with my timing light and thats correct (as far as my gun tells me). i tried 0/78 anyway, it was running a bit rougher ofcourse since i didnt change anything but the same thing occurs at 2600rpm.
I have AJQ from 1999. I think our core engines are more or less the same. I think ur settings are not the problem. I think u have an electrical issue. Did u already check the signal with a scope?
Regarding timing…did u chack it with lamp of camshaft mark or flywheel mark?
i agree that they should be rougly the same. i did check the crank signal with the built-in EMU scope and that looks good to my eye, i will link a screenshot.
did check at the crankshaft-pulley mark and that was spot on. i will do that again tomorrow just to make sure.
The circles in the middle mean that there is is something wrong with the signal.
I will also check the timing of my engine again.
Ja dann back to german
Ich glaub du hast wirklich n elektrisches Problem…bad ground…kaputter sensor…schlechter Abstand zwischen Sensor und Rad…kaputtes Rad…kaputtes Kabel…irgend sowas.
Ah okay, guter tipp mit dem kreis auf den signalen! Bad ground oder kabel hatte ich auch im kopf, ich habe das Primary trigger sowie Signal Masse (einzeln in die EMU) mit einem seperaten Kabel neu verlegt und probiert, leider gleiches Symptom. Kaputtes Rad hab ich natĂĽrlich noch nicht kontrolliert.
probiere morgen nochmal einen anderen sensor, falls das nicht hilft probiere ich mal größeren(?) abstand zum rad.
Danke fĂĽr deine zeit!
EDIT: zu der Idee mit dem kaputten sensor- ich kriege den Motor sporadisch zum laufen, oft springt nach der 1sten umdrehung an und manchmal garnicht. Trotzdem werd ichs wohl kontrollieren müssen…
Hi! was able to make it today, so i cleared that there are no leftovers or dirt on my crank wheel. What i spotted in my emu logs is that the ecu happens to
count one teeth twice per rotation.
For example: my ECU picks up a teeth every ~8-10ms, and spontaneously it happens to pick up 2 teeth in about ~0.5ms which is clearly not right, ill think about this and see where i end up :')
Hello,
I have exactly the same problem with my primary trigger/VR sensor. Error in the log file: Unexpected missing tooth. A maximum of 1440 RPM is possible. That’s just enough for a short drive around the garage…
I use a custom 60-2 trigger according to the VW 1.8T principle. I had already tried a lot with the settings within the Emu and with the cable shielding.
I will test another sensor cable and then change the distance between the VR sensor and the trigger wheel.
After that it gets tight. All that remains is to switch to a Hall sensor.
I also think that the trigger angle on the 1.8T should be more like 90 degrees?
Possibly It doesn’t help to start with the first trigger tooth. So start counting with a later tooth and reduce the trigger angle accordingly.
Let’s stay in touch. Let’s see what actually helps.
Hey! 951TS good to hear your situation. i was able to resolve my problem by wiring a 10KOhm Resistor inline between the sensor output and EMU Primary trigger input. After that i started from 0 in terms of my trigger input settings (pullup/pulldown and input filter). I ended up on a pulldown of 1K and input filter medium. i suggest you to do the same. 0 them all and start highering the input and pulldown/pullup depending on your trigge edge selection.
EDIT: I have trigger edge “rising” selected, which im sure is gonna matter when selecting pullup/pulldown.
I counted 14 teeth from trigger wheel mark to TDC, each tooth is 6 degrees, so roughly 84°. BUT i only checked my timing with a cheap gun once, which was 4 degrees off. i changed to trigger teeth 0 and 78° which was bettter with my cheap timing gun. it works well in my case so i will stick to that if the timing fits you can put any number in
I also tried adjusting sensor distance to trigger wheel which made it worse when moving it further out. I started having the issue at 2600rpm and after i increased distance to trigger wheel i was only able to rev about 1500rpm. my sensor to trigger wheel distance NOW is roughly measured 1mm, which works fine with the resistor in-line.
hopefully this helps and im waiting to hear back from you
According VAG OEM SWs most of the VAG engines have 1/72 (=0/78) trigger setting (and 1.8t defenitly). But depending on the sensor i think it can differ 1 or 2 degrees. So i think timing lamp with flywheel mark always wins. Cam mark is shit to check timing on this engines. I think thats why many people have wrong trigger settings with this engine.
I completed the first test with a 10k resistor in the primary trigger line and some adjustments in the settings. See the hardcopy attached (I use the 3.x version). Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to check the sensor distance yet. The car continues to start very poorly. When the engine is running, higher speeds are now possible. So it’s better. Unfortunately it was no longer possible to idle later. Possibly another problem. The trigger error log looks much better. When the engine is running, however, the message “unexpected missing tooth” and now “tooth out of range” rarely appear. I’m still hoping for a “faulty” sensor distance.
Current update: After many hours of work over the weekend, I found the best setting for my primary trigger. I reduced the trigger distance a little again and didn’t use any as pullup/pulldown or input filter. With this setting and the 10k resistor the motor runs absolutely without trigger errors. Only the cold start behavior is not yet particularly good. Perhaps the starter speed may be too low, causing more errors to occur. I think switching to a hall sensor next season could improve this. Improving the trigger wheel or making a new one is not an option. After checking the actual ignition several times, we also arrived at a trigger angle of 78 degrees. Thank you again for your support. In this way, difficult problems can be solved together.
One point struck me while driving. I have the impression that a slightly high boost pressure is measured by the internal pressure sensor (4bar). especially in comparison to common 2.5bar pressure sensors. Maybe a tolerance problem because of the large measuring range ?
Nice to hear that u solved ur problem.
I also expirienced an offset of the internal MAP sensor. U can correct this in the sensor setting…there is an option for offset. But mine was just 3kpa off…in V2 i needed to correct -3kpa and in V3 +1kpa. Strange that it is varying with the SW.
Ok. I saw that with setting the offset for the pressure sensor. This reminds me of historical times when I logged the voltages from the pressure sensor and then converted them manually into pressure later… I estimate the deviation to be plus 3 to 4 kpa in software version 3
Great to hear that you made progress on your settings and figured it out.
I didnt notice any unusual pressure ranges on my car, but havent really touched boost yet (running on 0.5-0.7bar) but you saying this is gonna put my attention to it! Only thing i noticed is that my MAP is slightly “waving” when im under load, in idle its not happening. MAP constantly rises and falls when under load; ranges from 0.01 to 0.03kpa… not that significant but i will eventually check my BOV for a fault since im using the stock 1.8T BOV.
Yes, it works quite well with the settings. When the engine is running, everything works fine. However, the car starts very, very poorly. I have to see what the log file shows. Trigger errors are currently not visible. I’m afraid the actual control of the injectors in ms is not logged ? Even “only” 3 kpa of boost pressure deviation is quite relevant depending on the vehicle and the environment. Not everyone drives with 250 kpa boost pressure… Maybe tomorrow I’ll try to reduce the distance from the primary sensor a bit again.
